Author Topic: Israelian attack on help convoy  (Read 30754 times)

Offline tRiCkHaTT

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2010, 05:51:02 AM »
All blockades are in international waters.  Otherwise they would be literally repelling an invasion.  The aguments about this happening in international waters are fucking retarded.  There are 6 main terrorist organizations operating inside of what people insist on calling Palestine.  Palestinian terrorist organizations have resorted to receiving their weapons from the sea because Israel has the best intelligence apparatus in the world and rogue nations and criminal organizations that supply weapons to terrorist organization can not get away with it by bringing them across national borders any more.  This is why there is a blockade.  it is not how the media made it looks where there were some nice peaceful haaji's and all the sudden evil zionist kikes decided to go fuck with people on a peaceful boat ride.

Here is the unemotional, unbiased, unantisemitic truth

http://vimeo.com/12290869

~Great Vid...thats what I needed to see, I just hope that media is legit...
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Offline xeno

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2010, 06:17:50 AM »
Here is the unemotional, unbiased, unantisemitic truth

lol

Quote from: The International Christian Embassy Jerusalem, icej.org
our mandate

The International Christian Embassy Jerusalem was founded in 1980 as an evangelical Christian response to the need to comfort Zion according to the command of scripture found in Isaiah 40:1-2: "Comfort, comfort my people, says your God. Speak tenderly to Jerusalem..."

Position
What we believe

For 30 years, the ICEJ has been considered the forerunner in developing wider Christian understanding of Biblical Zionism. Today, as the world's largest international network of Christian supporters of Israel, the Christian Embassy is at the vanguard of educating the Church about God's promises and purposes concerning the Jewish people and their national rebirth.

The ICEJ offers relevant information to help Christians and others gain greater appreciation of the Biblical credentials behind the modern-day Jewish restoration to the land of their forefathers and its unique role in world redemption.

as objective as they come...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 06:21:07 AM by xeno »

Offline Oekelboter

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2010, 12:26:18 PM »
Ooh nice video and statement. :)

Guess we've now seen both ends of the propagandic spectrum.
The truth will most likely be somewhere in between.

I find it unlikely that that boat was 100% full of wanna-be martyrs.
It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of the people on that boat actually honestly believed it to be a goody two shoes love&peace-type-action-thingy. Poor sods.

On the other end... if you're a minority with an outspoken preference, but your little voice is not heard by the majority (cuz they're chanting commercials and screaming Holy brandnames way too loud)... how would ~you~ make yourself heard? How would ~you~ enforce them majority-mob to respect you and your little whims??

Me? I'd do terroristattacks with nuclear weapons. Always a good bang for your buck.

...


But!
Doesn't having this (DG) musical taste make us here all part of a minority? Are we not heard by the majority of the music industry? Then how come I'm not on a rampage to blow up the local radiostations/big music companies to become a martyr of Teh Only Good Music Cause??

How come some people on that boat were actually just about to do that (for a mere personal preference)?

I honestly wonder.




Offline xeno

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2010, 01:09:37 AM »
Doesn't having this (DG) musical taste make us here all part of a minority? Are we not heard by the majority of the music industry? Then how come I'm not on a rampage to blow up the local radiostations/big music companies to become a martyr of Teh Only Good Music Cause??

It's tragic that people who perform half-arsed cover songs in tv reality shows are dominating the top sales lists, but I would hardly compare it to the 2000 years of constant warfare that has been going on in Israel.

When it comes to the religious side of this, trying to understand it is futile...

Offline Drewthetexan

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2010, 01:24:06 PM »
Interesting article on the subject
I find it unlikely that that boat was 100% full of wanna-be martyrs.
It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of the people on that boat actually honestly believed it to be a goody two shoes love&peace-type-action-thingy. Poor sods.



Martyr's? No.

Feel good trip out to sea to thumb their noses at the IDF and then go home and have pita & hummus and talk about how clever they were? No.

Anybody who got on those boats and thought they weren't playing with fire is naive or a fool.
IDF is notorious for engaging threats with little regard for collateral damage, and when they say something is going to be a certain way, they are pretty forceful in asserting it. 

For some reason, everyone loves to hate the Jewish. So Israeli policies seem draconian and evil and the poor Palestinians got screwed, yada yada... For that matter, anything presented by a source with Jewish or Israeli affiliations is strongly questioned because bias is assumed. Bias is not bad. It's just about knowing your source.

How about the Danish? They are a peaceful, tolerant, free thinking and progressive, right?  The Danes are pretty much fed up with Muslims in their country, so I take the source with some reservations. But they also appear to have a real interest in getting the facts out there, so take this article on the subject at hand with that in mind: http://europenews.dk/en/node/33616
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Offline faelaenx

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2010, 11:44:30 PM »
<------too scared and/or tired-of-fucking-caring-about-all-you-humans-killing-each-other

Kill all of each other and everyone for that matter and get it the FUCK over with. i'm tired of waiting, and i'm tired watching. Get it the FUCK over with and do us all a favor. Annihilate the human race already....because that's the end result , right? FUCK everything, FUCK it ALL. That's what everyone wants, right?
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Offline Lexus

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2010, 04:59:36 AM »
Interesting article on the subject
I find it unlikely that that boat was 100% full of wanna-be martyrs.
It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of the people on that boat actually honestly believed it to be a goody two shoes love&peace-type-action-thingy. Poor sods.



Martyr's? No.

Feel good trip out to sea to thumb their noses at the IDF and then go home and have pita & hummus and talk about how clever they were? No.

Anybody who got on those boats and thought they weren't playing with fire is naive or a fool.
IDF is notorious for engaging threats with little regard for collateral damage, and when they say something is going to be a certain way, they are pretty forceful in asserting it. 

For some reason, everyone loves to hate the Jewish. So Israeli policies seem draconian and evil and the poor Palestinians got screwed, yada yada... For that matter, anything presented by a source with Jewish or Israeli affiliations is strongly questioned because bias is assumed. Bias is not bad. It's just about knowing your source.

How about the Danish? They are a peaceful, tolerant, free thinking and progressive, right?  The Danes are pretty much fed up with Muslims in their country, so I take the source with some reservations. But they also appear to have a real interest in getting the facts out there, so take this article on the subject at hand with that in mind: http://europenews.dk/en/node/33616


For the Danish, its just a sign. Our culture that we assumed to be superior turns out to be not so superior after all. If our culture was superior, it would mean that people come over from these lands, take a little bit of their own culture with them, but in general, wholly embrace our culture. They dont, so that means there is something wrong with our cultural superiority.

Cant really blame them. I mean, we have pretty much traded most of our culture for money. Everything needs to make a profit or else it doesnt get funded. Family relations are under so much strain. Everyone needs to make money so they dont have time for their kids anymore. Kids these days are mostly raised by strangers who in turn, make money from it. The most important days in the year are consumer fests or days where the government announces economical growth numbers. Then there is excessive individualism where everyone should have the complete freedom to do whatever he pleases and if others dont like it then these others need to shut up. For example, a friend from my mother told her she was in the supermarket waiting to pay for her stuff and behind here there was this little kid with a mini shopping car. And he was driving the car in her leg constantly. So she asks the mother to stop her child because its annoying and it hurts on which the mother responds with 'If my kids like to do this, then I allow him to do it'. Talk about bad parenting, but hey, thats pretty normal these days. Anyways, story has a nice ending because behind that mother there was this guy with a bottle of milk. He opens the bottle and empties it on the mothers head and says 'Hey, I like to do this, so Im allowed to do this right?'
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Offline Leviathan

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2010, 08:32:55 PM »
Here is the unemotional, unbiased, unantisemitic truth

lol

Quote from: The International Christian Embassy Jerusalem, icej.org
our mandate

The International Christian Embassy Jerusalem was founded in 1980 as an evangelical Christian response to the need to comfort Zion according to the command of scripture found in Isaiah 40:1-2: "Comfort, comfort my people, says your God. Speak tenderly to Jerusalem..."

Position
What we believe

For 30 years, the ICEJ has been considered the forerunner in developing wider Christian understanding of Biblical Zionism. Today, as the world's largest international network of Christian supporters of Israel, the Christian Embassy is at the vanguard of educating the Church about God's promises and purposes concerning the Jewish people and their national rebirth.

The ICEJ offers relevant information to help Christians and others gain greater appreciation of the Biblical credentials behind the modern-day Jewish restoration to the land of their forefathers and its unique role in world redemption.

as objective as they come...


Say what you want.  Objective reporting is such regardless of the source.  Fixed News and the All Barak Channel both claim to be unbiased but we all know that is bull shit.  both are as one sided and biased as possible.  Look at the Christian Science monotor and some Christian Apologist publications.  They have very reputable track records for honesty.  But look at the New York Times.  Their corrupt and slanted reporting goes back to 1898 when outright falsehoods in a series of articles caused us to go to war with Spain for a crime for which they were innocent.  Could perhaps, you be focused on this aspect of where the news came from because you are biased against religion?

Leviathan
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 08:36:12 PM by Leviathan »
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Offline Leviathan

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2010, 08:54:23 PM »

On the other end... if you're a minority with an outspoken preference, but your little voice is not heard by the majority (cuz they're chanting commercials and screaming Holy brandnames way too loud)... how would ~you~ make yourself heard? How would ~you~ enforce them majority-mob to respect you and your little whims??

The intentional or carelessly negligent killing of innocent non-combatants is never justified.  This is not Bronze Age Canaan.  God isn't telling anyone to wipe out populations any more.  And those who like to dredge that up need to know that those acts of warfare were done because those people had previously tried to wipe the Hebrews out and drove them out of their land.  They came back and took their asses to school as soon as they had the ability.  Just like 1948.  But in 1948 the land was BOUGHT from Arabs by wealthy Jews and benevolent peoples of all faiths, most namely the Vatican.  The Koran (I've read it in it's entirety several times as well as the Hadith and the various Shiite texts) has rules that govern warfare.  Terrorism against civilian targets is in direct violation of the Koran - even against those considered what they would call lowlife "kaffir" (pagans).  Now what happens after a people is conquered is also instructed and completely barbaric.  But Warfare is only supposed to be against other warriors.  But then again, Muhammed (as he always did) completely violated what is supposedly God's word by committing genocide on Arabian Jews.  All because he got all butthurt because they didn't follow his every whim when he started teaching things that were in violation of the Torah after he called the Torah the true word of God.  The fact is, that the Koran is full of those contraditions  because he calles Jesus the Messiah many times, but denies that He was the Son of God or the last prophet.  But he does say that He had a virgin birth.  So I guess in the view of Muhammed Jesus was like a walking tumor or some thing.  Basically, he claimed to be a religious scholar but he misquoted scriptures, displayed a complete lack of understanding of what he was criticizing, and taught things and made actions in contradiction to what he said was true.  So he did not leave the best example for his future followers.

Levi
My level of respect for a person is determined by how much they are willing to endure for what they believe in.

Offline Drewthetexan

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2010, 07:57:01 AM »

For the Danish, its just a sign. Our culture that we assumed to be superior turns out to be not so superior after all. If our culture was superior, it would mean that people come over from these lands, take a little bit of their own culture with them, but in general, wholly embrace our culture. They dont, so that means there is something wrong with our cultural superiority.
This is not entirely different than here in the U.S.  I think whenever you have freedom, people tend to do things as they'd like to do it - or more particularly, how they're used to doing it. It doesn't make the existing culture less than superior because, frankly, any culture that embraces personal liberties is superior. The problem comes when people feel the need to impose their beliefs and culture onto others.
 

Quote
Cant really blame them. I mean, we have pretty much traded most of our culture for money. Everything needs to make a profit or else it doesnt get funded. Family relations are under so much strain. Everyone needs to make money so they dont have time for their kids anymore. Kids these days are mostly raised by strangers who in turn, make money from it. The most important days in the year are consumer fests or days where the government announces economical growth numbers.
Yeah, we're all consumer whores.  Christmas is a giant orgy of commercialism unrivaled by anything and the whole concept disgusts me.  The best gift I've ever gotten was a letter telling me that my christmas gift was a donation to some worthy cause. Birthdays are the same.

How high are the income taxes? There are a bunch of us here in the States who think the high taxes are the culprit. Well, not the taxes specifically - that is a symptom of strong central government. It's everyone expecting government to take care of them, raise their kids; taxing the shit out of the populace and redistributing it. Then people don't *have* to think, they just do as government says. 

Quote
Then there is excessive individualism where everyone should have the complete freedom to do whatever he pleases and if others dont like it then these others need to shut up. For example, a friend from my mother told her she was in the supermarket waiting to pay for her stuff and behind here there was this little kid with a mini shopping car. And he was driving the car in her leg constantly. So she asks the mother to stop her child because its annoying and it hurts on which the mother responds with 'If my kids like to do this, then I allow him to do it'. Talk about bad parenting, but hey, thats pretty normal these days. Anyways, story has a nice ending because behind that mother there was this guy with a bottle of milk. He opens the bottle and empties it on the mothers head and says 'Hey, I like to do this, so Im allowed to do this right?'

I want to shake that man's hand.

I think the social impact of being coddled from cradle to grave by a heavy handed and impersonal government is devastating to society.  You get shit like this.  (It isn't the only cause, but it is significant.)
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Offline Drewthetexan

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2010, 07:58:27 AM »
<------too scared and/or tired-of-fucking-caring-about-all-you-humans-killing-each-other

Kill all of each other and everyone for that matter and get it the FUCK over with. i'm tired of waiting, and i'm tired watching. Get it the FUCK over with and do us all a favor. Annihilate the human race already....because that's the end result , right? FUCK everything, FUCK it ALL. That's what everyone wants, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W57w7UfYZLg
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Offline Drewthetexan

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2010, 08:31:58 AM »
On the other end... if you're a minority with an outspoken preference, but your little voice is not heard by the majority (cuz they're chanting commercials and screaming Holy brandnames way too loud)... how would ~you~ make yourself heard? How would ~you~ enforce them majority-mob to respect you and your little whims??

Sometimes, but certainly not always, when the majority doesn't listen it's because you're wrong.  And either way, blowing the majority all to hell doesn't do anything but make you wrong and the enemy.

On the flipside, one of my favorite quotes is: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -Benjamin Franklin
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Offline Drewthetexan

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2010, 09:15:57 AM »

The intentional or carelessly negligent killing of innocent non-combatants is never justified.  This is not Bronze Age Canaan.  God isn't telling anyone to wipe out populations any more.  And those who like to dredge that up need to know that those acts of warfare were done because those people had previously tried to wipe the Hebrews out and drove them out of their land.  They came back and took their asses to school as soon as they had the ability.  Just like 1948.  But in 1948 the land was BOUGHT from Arabs by wealthy Jews and benevolent peoples of all faiths, most namely the Vatican.  The Koran (I've read it in it's entirety several times as well as the Hadith and the various Shiite texts) has rules that govern warfare.  Terrorism against civilian targets is in direct violation of the Koran - even against those considered what they would call lowlife "kaffir" (pagans).  Now what happens after a people is conquered is also instructed and completely barbaric.  But Warfare is only supposed to be against other warriors.  But then again, Muhammed (as he always did) completely violated what is supposedly God's word by committing genocide on Arabian Jews.  All because he got all butthurt because they didn't follow his every whim when he started teaching things that were in violation of the Torah after he called the Torah the true word of God.  The fact is, that the Koran is full of those contraditions  because he calles Jesus the Messiah many times, but denies that He was the Son of God or the last prophet.  But he does say that He had a virgin birth.  So I guess in the view of Muhammed Jesus was like a walking tumor or some thing.  Basically, he claimed to be a religious scholar but he misquoted scriptures, displayed a complete lack of understanding of what he was criticizing, and taught things and made actions in contradiction to what he said was true.  So he did not leave the best example for his future followers.

Levi

Mohammed specifically mentioned that the Jewish and Christians were tolerable because they believed in the same god, they just weren't up to date. Somewhere along the line Arabic Muslims got all twisted up over Judaism and Christianity, but for a long time they coexisted together just fine.  I thought the only reason he attacked the Arabic Jewish population at the time was to subjugate them, or rather get them out of Medina altogether. He was still trying to establish himself, and they were being ... Jewish! ;D (I'm totally kidding!)

I don't remember the details, it's been a few years since I read up on all of this. It's actually pretty fascinating stuff to read. A good, concise book on the history of Islam (and the direction it is heading) is No God but God, by Reza Aslan.
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Offline Lexus

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2010, 09:49:27 AM »
This is not entirely different than here in the U.S.  I think whenever you have freedom, people tend to do things as they'd like to do it - or more particularly, how they're used to doing it. It doesn't make the existing culture less than superior because, frankly, any culture that embraces personal liberties is superior. The problem comes when people feel the need to impose their beliefs and culture onto others.
I do not entirely agree with that. I think that a society that allows personal freedoms is superior up to a certain point. We lost our way in how much freedom we should allow people to have. Total freedom is a bad thing. Total personal liberties are a bad thing. There should be strict division between your individual civil liberties and where they end. I mean, we had this debate in Europe about the right to offend everyone you damn well please because offending people is part of the freedom of speech. I disagree. Yeah, you should have the right of freedom of speech to a certain extend. But at some point that right ends. I dont think it should include the right to insult everyone and everything you want.

Its a delicate issue though, and we are wrong to let the government decide where such lines lie. Society as a whole should unconsciously decide whats allowed and what not. So, a freedom to insult should legally be allowed. It should just be that everyone who does it get a very negative backlash from his surrounding. Society should censor itself to some point. Take some responsibility for its members.

Muslims utterly fail at this as well though. They let their brothers become raving zealots who blow innocent people up for some 'higher cause' and they say nothing about it. They lost themselves as well in barbarity as well. There is no social control over there as well, and when there is any social control its the wrong kind of control.

Quote
How high are the income taxes? There are a bunch of us here in the States who think the high taxes are the culprit. Well, not the taxes specifically - that is a symptom of strong central government. It's everyone expecting government to take care of them, raise their kids; taxing the shit out of the populace and redistributing it. Then people don't *have* to think, they just do as government says. 

Pretty high. Depends on how much you earn, but top incomes pay at some point 50% of their income as taxes. But I prefer a strong central government over a government that lets 'the free market' do all the work. Its just that currently our government is just incapable, retarded and corrupt. But thats just democracy combined with excessive individualism and the loss of any sense of overall responsibility. 

A good government should be in control of large parts of society, but it should be supported by a willing population that actively participates in the government and has a strong sense of overall responsibility. And the government should have a strong sense of responsibility as well. We currently lack that. The politicians are politicians because of their ego, and people dont give a shit or just lost all faith in the government.


Quote
I want to shake that man's hand.

I think the social impact of being coddled from cradle to grave by a heavy handed and impersonal government is devastating to society.  You get shit like this.  (It isn't the only cause, but it is significant.)

Meh, I blame the economy and the fact that everything should be allowed and because its allowed should also be done. You got the right to be an asshole, thus you should act like an asshole. You do things not because its right but because you can. Just because you can has become the ultimate excuse to do whatever you please. This is the fault of everyone, the government, the media, the unchecked free market and unchecked personal liberties. Excesses left from the sixties and the seventies. Truly the whole unchecked sexual revolution is the worst thing that ever happened to human society.
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Offline xeno

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Re: Israelian attack on help convoy
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2010, 04:12:52 PM »
For the Danish, its just a sign. Our culture that we assumed to be superior turns out to be not so superior after all. If our culture was superior, it would mean that people come over from these lands, take a little bit of their own culture with them, but in general, wholly embrace our culture. They dont, so that means there is something wrong with our cultural superiority.

I don't think it's possible to make any such deductions...

People don't act rationally, and they don't generally choose the best and most logical option.
There's a saying that "despair teaches a naked woman to sew clothing", but it's not true.
despair teaches people to single out some other people and sacrifice them to the sun god.